tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 22, 2010 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
tony schwartz. a pleasure to spend the summer afternoon with you. i am dylan ratigan. thank you for a piece of your afternoon. up next, chuck todd sitting in for chris matthews on a presidential apology. let's play "hardball." >> good evening. i'm chuck todd in tonight for chris matthews. leading off, well, the president is calling. the shirley sherrod story has obscure what had the white house would like to talk about. wall street reform, job reform passing. elena kagan hearing. all of which are not small fetes. this morning sherrod said on tv
she would like a phone call from the president. a few hours later they got just that. they try ad few times last night and couldn't get ahold of her because her voice mail was full. no doubt the white house would love to see this be the end of the story and try to talk about some of what they believe are successes this week. it can want seem to get out of its own way. perhaps it's fitting that it was one year ago today that president obama weighed in on the arrest of henry lewis gates, turning a small story into a media african frenzy. nothing can command them more than the intersection of race and politics. could this be another teachable moment? or are we in the d.c. chattering class mature enough to be taught anything on this topic right now? plus, careful what you wish for. the networ roots for canada's biggest barack obama supporters. now they're among the most disappointed in him. they're meeting in las vegas this week to talk about why they expected more. and sarah palin still wants to know how the hope and change
thing is working out for you. every day no credible candidate emerges is another day closer to sarah palin be becoming leader of the gop peck. and finally, republican senate candidate ken buck learned an old lesson. you don't tug on superman's cape. you don't spit into the wind. don't pull the mask off the lone ranger and don't make fun of a pair of women's shoes. that's in the side show we'll begin with president obama's phone call and apology to shirley sherrod. congressman, before i get to your reaction to what's been a circus of a week, i wantç to sw a clip of what miss sherrod said this morning about what she wanted to talk o the president about. take a listen. >> you know, i would like to talk to him a little bit about the experiences of people like me. people at the grass root level. people who live out there and
rule america. people who live in the south. i know he does not have that kind of experience. let me help him with how we think, how we live, and the things that are happening. we are people who struggle every day, twho do the best we can in our communities. who love this country. we love him. we want him to be successful. i want everything to reflect. i want a good reflection for him as the first black president. >> congressman clyburn, you're a son of the south. do you think she has a point that president obama still has some things to learn about rural america and about what it's like to be an african-american in the south? >> oh, there's no question about it. the fact of the matter is we do know that president obama has in the white house a lot of a lot of very gifted people, very
smart people. i don't care who you are. you cannot be anymore, nor will you be any less than what your experiences allow you to be. that happens within the households. my wife and i grew up in a different environment. we had to learn early on that adjustments had to be made. and so i tried to tell people all the time the experiences of growing up in the south. the experience of growing up in rural communities. those are different experiences than you get on the streets of new york or chicago. i think those experiences need to be factored into the decision matk"tsp)r'g at the white house well as this a lot of these secretaries of state, secretaries offices in the cabinet. . >> you know, congressman, i was
thinking president obama share ad story in one of these many books that have already been written about his campaign about how when he finally came to the decision to run, one of the reasons was he thought, well, you know what, the way he'll be a role model for young black men in america today will be very important to him, and, yet, the ability to talk about race while he's been a sitting president just hapt been there for him. do you think the experience with what happened this week, wapd with skip gates a year ago, is just going to make it that much harder for this president to ever address the issues of race in this country that still need to be addressed as a sitting president? >> well, you know, you don't lea learn. >> you don't learn to deal with things by avoiding them. too much advice is give on the the president about avoiding them. you have to con front the
issues. and you have to learn how to tolerate certain things. if you are going to get beyond them. there's a little too much avo avoidance taking place rather than confronting the issues. we could have a productive discussion around the issue of race. but only if you gauge. you must learn how to get along with people, but you can't do it if you don't engage each other. that's what is happening here. that's what is causing this proble problem. >> you believe this circus of the last four days may have been influenced by the fact that this white house has been looking for ways to not talk about race? >> well, i'm not saying not talk about it. i think that there's so many things about the experienceç tt
sometimes we're not comfortable enough to really engage it. when all of this happened. when miss sherrod was nothing but a name, people felt one way. but then they begin to look at her background, look at her experiences, and see what this real story is, people feel totally different. how did we find out about who and what she is? only when we started to get beyond her name and her photo. that's how we have to deal with the issue overall. >> i know you have to go. i want to ask you about the news about congressman charlie rangle and the news from the ethics committee. do you think the congressman should not be seeking re-election, or what do you think should be the next step here? >> well, i heard about this this
afternoon. i think that there is going -- this is a sort of recommendation that comes before before a committee next week. i believe next thursday. i will not offer any advice to mr. rangle so far. i talked to him today. he seemed to be in a good mood. i think this is going to work out fine for congressman rangle. now we're going to turn to a former mb of congress and. congressman clyburn seemed to be somewhat critical of maybe the political advice the president is getting on dealing with race
issues. if your gut says it's wrong, you have to act on it. the fill strags process is rough being the leader of the free world. this president got to where he is based on his gut and heart. >> is it possible the political advisers are right on this, even if it means we're going to avoid a conversation about race during the time of america's first african-american president because it's too toxic you're going to drink the water, or you're not going to drink the water. it's an issue we can't run from. it's with us every day. we have a terrible history of 300 years of slavery. 100 years of segregation. it's time to really allow the conversation to take place when it occurs. at the end of the day, we are like, miss sherrod said. regular, normal, average people. different colors. different hues.
nothing special. god made us equal. we're taught to love the country, respect our faith and to talk about the things that divide us, but not to focus on them. we focus on our similarities. and i think if people are advising the president don't touch this or don't touch that, i can't tell them what to do. in this instance he did the right thing. >> what is everybody learning from this, not just the media, but also the white house. take a listen. >> asking that question. did we see the whole thing? do we know when that story was? do we know what her background is? do we now how the story ends? certainly stuff like that is helpful and reflective. not only do we live in this crazy reality tv culture, right?
yes, i think that's part of it. i always think it was undoubtedly sparked by the fact that it's a discussion about race. and that is something that always garners a lot of attention. >> is washington mature enough to have a conversation about race? >> it's a new point. the conversation is going to come up over and over. the question becomes are we mature enough to deal with the conversation the right way. it the take place with or without us. it's very important for those he attention not to run if from it. when it happens, it happens. just as many white people want the conversation as many black people do. don't think about that. think about your poll ratings.
think about this. >> let me ask you this. there was a time when people were talking about you being the next speaker of the house and running for state office. when you were done with your political ambition to elective office, did you want to talk more about race, less about race, deal with the issues? did you find this push/pull? >> advisers and i don't get along too well, so i've given them advice. i found i had more credibility to talk about it. i didn't run from it when i was in office. the igest issue is how we live in the age where if you have a website you can go write something or post something, and all the sudden it's fact. when i was in journalism school, i was taught to get the who, what, where, when and how and then report the story. to some extent there's been a knee jerk reaction. the naacp overreacted. the department of agricultural
overreacted and the media clearly overreacted for it. >> there's no ethics committee for the media. there's nobody to file a complaint with. >> turn off the set, kill the website or -- >> congressman, thank you for your perspective today. this was great. coming up, a year and a half into barack obama's presidency, and race remains a huge talking point in the country. what does shirley sherrod say about how the media covers the issue of race? you're watchi ining "hardball" on msnbc. call or click today for a free quote or to find an allstate agent. we're with you when you're saving for your dreams. [ woman ] when you want a bank that travels with you. with you when you're ready for the next move. [ male announcer ] now that wells fargo and wachovia have come together, what's in it for you? unprecedented strength, the stability of the leading community bank in the nation and with 12,000 atms and thousands of branches, we're with you in more ways and places than ever before. with you when you want the most from your bank.
[ male announcer ] wells fargo. together we'll go far. the house ethics committee charged congressman charlie rangle with multiple allegations that he violated ethics rules beginning in 2008. and the committee's decision today suggests several members of his own party voted against him. late today rangel had this exchange with my colleague, luke russert.
>> what are you talking about? >> these are serious violations. >> how do you think i got my job? i was elected, right? >> there's two ways. you can lose it if your colleagues voted you out of here because of your ethics violations or your constituents -- >> what constituents? >> while you're young, i guess you do need to make a name for yourself, but basically you know it's a dumb question. >> mr. rangel -- >> how is it a dumb question. allegations were made -- >> sir, you have not filed taxes on properties allegedly. if that's to be true -- >> it sunt even sound like nbc asking these dumb questions. it just shows what has really happened to a channel that did have some respect. well, that's a testy charlie
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i don't know not having been there and not seeing all the facts what role race played in that. but it's fair to say any of us would be pretty angry. number two, that the cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof they were in their own home. >> welcome back to "hardball." those words one year agoç tonit gave the story of a white police officer and a black harvard professor. now the shirley sherrod story is covering the media. willy brown is the former mayor of san francisco. e. stevens collins is a radio talk show host. mayor brown i want to start with
you. i'm not saying this because i think you're of another generation, but you are of another generation. how much of this with president obama and his avoidance of the race issue is generational. >> i don't think in his case it's generational. i think he understands very cheerily, barack obama is the president of these united states. his handlers and his calculators and those who have propelled him and assisted in get lging him that position walked there awe whole series of potential barriers and problem. they have dealt with those effectively. race being one of them. he's been magnificent on his utterances when confronted. in terms of being a crusader, image setter and a leader, that's not part of the role he has chosen to take. it doesn't have anything to do with generation. it has more to do with politicipolitics
and political success. >> have we in the media covered the issue of race so far in the obama presidency? >> well, i think this is a unique situation. because there have been a series of different false starts ob the story. initially there was a report by a person who had a particular agenda in posting it. then there's the overreaction by the naacp and the usda chief, agricultural secretary, rather. then there's the correction. in all of this, miss sherrod's reputation and name has been damaged. so i think the media has done what they usually do. they jumped to a story that involved race.ç in doing so they added to hurting her name and reputation. very convictly the naacp reacted. quickly the secretary reacted. then this morning she's on
television she's been very vocal and accessible as has been the farmer who was the person who she helped. you have all these different pieces. they look great on television. it makes great tv. right now people want to see what's going on. over all in this quick 24-hour news cycle, the media is doing what it does. >> i want to play a portion of then can dad obama's race speech that he gave during the fallout of the reverend wright issue. >> this is where we are now. it's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for four years. contrary to my critics, i've never been so naive to believe we can get beyond our racial divisions with a single election cycle, or with a single
candidate. particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own. >> in rereading the president's race speech from philadelphia in 2008 it's funny, it goes to what you just said previously. he never set out to be a crusader when it came to civil rights. in this speech, that's an example of him saying, we should have a conversation, but this is not what my candidacy is about. >> that is exactly what he said. but i think we are all, the news media and everyone else is missing something. this woman was an incredible community-based advocate on behalf of black farmers and black farm families. she added to the agenda all farm
families. she's been in a pain in the side of the department of ingagricule for years. she sued them. thinkç think it's worth at lea president obama checking the al churl department to see whether or not they are responding to get rid of her as requested by the bureaucrats and advocate bid the bureaucrats, because she's such an effective person on behalf of the down and the have not. >> mayor brown is right. if you consider, chuck t fact that her father was killed by a kcaucasian and was never prosecuted. in this speech she made before it was conveniently edited, she was talking about how she resurrect resurrected and changed her position. beautiful story. awesome individual. i have so much respect for her for what she's done and what
she's attempting to do in making a department in the federal government responsive without considering race. in that context she should be remembered and viewed. it's unfortunate it took all this negativity to get her there. >> i'll let you respond to that. i also want you to respond to this question. do you believe it is easier to be an african-american politician out west than it is from the east coast, the cities or the south? let me start with the south. i am from the south. i graduated in texas. i know what this woman faced on a daily basis, although i didn't lose a father to a white person who shot him and wasn't indicted by the grand jury. i didn't have the same problems she had trying to register the vote, because i had moved to
california. it is not any different in california than it is on the east coast. the level of racism in this country so carefully concealed, so carefully hidden and so many people unwilling to acknowledge it's a distinct possibility. there's always the accusation that people are playing the race card. all this says in any place you that to be where you are black, you have to overcome each and every barrier while you get to the issues that need toç be addressed. in my opinion, president obama should have a beer summit. she really makes a lot of sense. if they wanted to really right the ship, they would put her in charge of the department of agriculture. >> mr. collins, quickly and i have to wrap this up. >> mayor brown hit it on the head. this is a learning moment for
the president and for all of us. he said we are stuck in a racial stalema stalemate. this opens the opportunity for significant dialogue and examined the things mr. sherrod says occurs in the department of agriculture. the farmers and all of us need in this country. >> former san francisco mayor and former speaker of the general assembly out there, willy brown and e. stevens collins in philadelphia. thank you for the lively discussion. up next, maybe another moment as republican senate candidate gives a bizarre reason why colorado voters should vote for him. it's a good one. when i grow up, i want to fix up old houses.
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back to "hardball" now. to the side show. first tonight a classic he said/she said. jan norton ran an ad accusing ken buck of resorting to third-party attacks because he's not man enough to do it himself. buck responded at a campaign stop this weekend. here it is in a video just posted online. by the other campaign. watch? >> why should we vote for you? >> why should you vote for me? because i do not wear high heels. she has questioned my manhood. i think it's fair to respond. i have cowboy boots. they have real [ bleep ] on them. as well as [ muted ] >> well, the northern on the campaign has turned the high heels clip into a statewide tv
ad ad. next, arnold schwarzenegger with a little comic relief. yesterday at an event in sacramen sacramento. >> bp has contained the oil leak. that is good news. finally. finally. the bad news is no one has figured out how to contain mel gibson. mel gibson, no one knows how to contain. this is why i want to ask you to please turn off your cell phones. we are expecting a call from him. >> wow. it looks like arnold has a million of them. now time for the "hardball" big number. harry reid's republican challenger sharron angle is known for being media shy. yesterday reporters were hoping to get a chance at a reno event that she billed as a press conference. we've highlighted her in the background as the final event
speaker invites reporters to ask questions. watch. >> make ourselves available for you as you have individual questions. >> çsharron, will you answers some questions really quickly? sharron, you don't have any -- >> we're running behind. i'm sorry. >> when will candidates learn on this stuff? that's the subject of tonight's big number. sharron angle takes zero questions a as what was billed at her own press conference. none, zero, zilch. we'll be right back. up next, sarah palin has endorse ad string of winners across the country. she may be reemerging as the
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i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. stocks logging their best day in weeks. the dow jones industrial surging 201 points. the s&p 500 adding 24. and the nasdaq jumping 58 points. today's rally was all about the earnings. economic bell weather, ups beating expectations and raising the fá!1 year outlook. caterpillar raising its forecast on strong sales in emerging markets.
at&t also beating estimates at precincting solid growth backed by strong iphone sales and improving margins. and manufacturer 3m with a cherry on the earnings, leading expectations, raising the forecast on growing demand in emerging markets. finally a flurry of reports coming out after the closing bell. microsoft topping expectations. amazon coming in line with expectations. and american express beating expectations thanks in part to a jump in spending on the corporate cards. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." >> and we're back. two powerful republicans. one 21st century creation, sarah palin and one from the 90s, newt
gingrich, weighing in on the news lately. joining me now, roger simon politico reporter. and dan, we're going to make roger make his case here. you're watching -- you're watching this sarah palin. she's clearly decided to get involved in midterm this is a way i think none of us ever thought. you see this as the classic case of someone preparing for a presidential run? >> i see it as someone maybe convincing herself that she can do a presidential run and as you yourself have noted, there's always plenty of people around a potential candidate saying you can do it. just pay me this huge fee and
i'll do it for you. eni think she has something to offer. which is her able to energize muá. who else on the list of republican candidates is genuinely exciting except for sarah palin? we look at sarah palin and see the familiarity in rudy giuliani. a guy that that had this odd excitement with the base. granted, in some of his positions he's not as conservative as is sarah palin, but there was the same energy and excitement, and he was the most well known. and at first it looked like he was floating it because he was thinking of making money. then it started to sink in, maybe he can get this nomination. do you see something like that with sarah palin? >> there's a distinction between rudy giuliani and sarah palin in their issues. and i think that's a critically
important distinction. i think roger is onto something. i have offenders if sarah palin will decide to run in 2012. she's the kind of person who may not have start the cycle with the idea she would be a candidate. the more she's out, the more response she gets, and as roger suggests, the more people around her say you ought to do this, the more difficult it is to say no. i think it's highly possible she will be a candidate in 2012. >> the thing i find fascinating is if you look on one hand the calendar, the way the early states break, it's actually perfect for her. iowa with this cultural conservatism. even new hampshire with conservative independence. this is where pat buchanan broke through. south carolina, michigan, and obviously she's played in those states. she made endorsements in new hampshire.
we know what she did for nikki haley? >> in 2008 she came out of the wood work. who is sarah palin. but you have to consider that she's almost earned a spot by being not even front-runner, but earned a spot to run by being the vice presidential nominee last time. it's the dan quayle effect. he lost the second time, he got to run. it wouldn't be outrageous now aç it was thought a year ago for her to run for president. zbr i want to move onto newt gingrich and talk about a state he made. it has to do with the building of a mosque around ground zero in new york city. this is the statement that gingrich put out. there should be no mosque near ground zero in new york so long as there are no churches and synagogues in saudi arabia. palin also tweeted on this
topic. she tweeted sunday, ground zero mosque supporters, doesn't it stab you in the heart, as it does ours throughout the heart land? peaceful muslims, plead refudiate. everyone focused on the refudiate. more of them are popping up amongst the conservative activist communities like this one. >> it is interesting, chuck. one of the interesting things is you find sarah palin and newt gingrich on the same page in this one in a number of races where they've both taken a position over the last year or so, they've been on opposite sides. significantly in the new york special election last year. and so here you have a situation where both of these potential 2012 candidates have a similar base they're trying to appeal to. they are obviously very different. the intellect is gingrich and sarah is the heart and the
energy. they are going after similar kinds of voters. on this kind of an issue, they are trying to make it a test. in some ways, perhaps, dare the other 2012ers to stake a stand. >> i'm supposed to wrap. but how seriously do you buy that newt gingrich is looking at a presidential run? >> semiserious? >> and where do you put sarah pale snn. >> i think she's going to do it. >> dan, where are you in your reporting and seeing what you're seeing in the way these two candidates interact, level of seriousness? >> i think newt gingrich is very serious about looking at it. i don't know where sarah palin isç at this point. i think she may well end up as a candidate. >> it's fascinating. she's a bigamistry to us reporters on what she's going to do. partially because she doesn't have the consultants with the d.c. ties around her, which may turn out to be a benefit.
>> she doesn't have to spend a cent on commercials. >> i love breaking it down tw you two, that was great. the net roots on the left were the biggest backers of barack obama's presidential candidacy. now they're among the most disappointed. we'll talk about what went wrong for some on the left. [ male announcer ] there's complete. and then there's most complete. like what you get from centrum ultra men's. the most complete multivitamin for men. it has antioxidants to help support your immunity and nutrients like vitamin d for your colon. centrum ultra men's. stop it. hello? you spotted a million dollar accounting error that no one else noticed. that was pretty sweet. but you did have eight layers of sweet crunchy back up. what can i say? you're the man.
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welcome back toç "hardball" today the net roots nation convenes in las vegas and many progressives attending are not happy with president obama. but polls show the country historically tilts more conservative than liberal. in fact, the most stable data in the nbc "wall street journal" poll going back to 1989 is roughly one-fifth of the country identifies its as being liberal and one-third identifies its as being conservative. everybody else picks moderate. when obama won in 2008, polling had the country as identifying themselves 25% liberal, 36%
conservative. in 1996 when bill clinton was reelected, it was 22% liberal. chris bowers is managing director of the liberal blog. he's out in las vegas attending net roots nation. let me start with this ideological question about the country. there are some progressives that are arguing, hey, what he did for the conservative movement is what progressives expect barack obama to do for the word or brand of liberalism or progressivism. is that fair? >> i wouldn't necessarily say that anyone would have expected barack obama, now president barack obama, chuck, to be a big champion of progressivism. he said he was going to operate on a bipartisan basis. but i think that people
americans. karen, this is the critique i've heard which is saying okay, yes, he got biggest stimulus package the country's seen but it wasn't big enough. yes, he got health care passed but it didn't have the public option. did he financial reform but it was missing it tougher standards when it came to. and this is the argument, hey, he's not really championing progressive causes. >> that's true. if you look at the coalition of voters that obama put together, they're moderate voters,ç yo r ers and consider themselves obama voters. so i think they had different expectations than either the left or the right. i think the criticism that he hasn't quite done enough, the bigger problem this white house has had with the liberal and progressive side is lake of communication. i think progressives feel very taken for granted. i think there has not been good
communication. sometimes i think they've used the left to sort of tack off the left to get back to the center. >> chris, i want to go back and hate to use polls again, but i have heard this critique from folks in the white house which they will say, well, the liberal elite may think one thing but guess what, self-described liberals in polls are not ban donning us at all. what do you say to that? >> currently, chuck, president obama's approval rating among liberals is 76%. in 2008, he received 89% of the liberal vote, a drop of 13%. when you compare that to what he received in moderate voters, he got 60% of their vote and his approval rating is 54%. he got 20% of the conservative vote in 2008 and currently has a 13% rating among conservatives. even though he has a higher approval rating among liberals, he has a more significant drop among liberals than any other ideological group. >> i do think there is a
decision between the activist progressive community and progressives in the country. i think it the job of progressives here in washington to push. that's what you do, push as far as you can. i do think though if you talk to progressives in the country, sure, there are things they're disappointed about. but given the choice whether it be mccain or bush, of course they're happy with obama and he has done a lot. >> i want to throw something else at you. sort of the godfather of this net roots nation. one of the things i've noticed about him sometimes supposed to a split with some others in the progressive blogosphere is he will be more pragmatic when it comes to elections and say you're not going to get asç liberal as you can get. that doesn't mean he hasn't gotten involved in primaries like arkansas. that isn't always the case. i know that was a topic today out in net roots nation. >> i'm interested in trying to
maximize progressive power as much as possible. that's both within legislation and in terms of elections. but as an activist, you know, i always want democrats to win but where i put my energy and my time and my money and my effort as a blaug blogger in terms of driving buzz, that's going to go to the champions that are really exciting to the progressive activist community. that's people like representative alan grayson or on the senate side people like barbara boxer or feingold, both of whom are facing difficult re-elections this time around. it's not so much a question where you are going to be backing candidates who have no chance of winning or cheering for democrats to loss, but where do you spend your time and energy because there is a fine night amount of that. >> that seemed a positive affirmation you were arguing for. quickly, karen. >> i agree. i think it's a work in progress. part of what the challenge
progress i bes are figuring out for these fall laeks is support candidates, may not support necessarily all the policies. >> karen finney and chris bowers. sorry we don't have more time. up next, an actual storm is coming to the gulf of mexico. by the way, so is the first family. we'll get the latest on the oil spill as that storm approaches, plus details of president obama's overnight trip to the gulf coast. this is "hardball" only on msnbc. room for eight and all sorts of space behind the third row. they just thought of everything. it just feels like a really solid car. that should come in handy. it's the chevrolet summer event and anyone can get the traverse they want. nah-uh... this one's mine. get 0% apr for 60 months on the 2010 traverse with an average finance savings of around fifty seven hundred. the switch begins at chevydealer.com.
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before we go, a little update from the gulf about the white house announced today the first family is going to be vacationing this weekend on the florida gulf coast. forecasters say a tropical storm could hit it the area saturday. what does this mean for relief efforts. joining us with the latest, charl had lock is in nbc's home away from home these days, venice, louisiana. charles, tell me this. what do we know about this storm? i know they think it's going to hit the east coast of florida and then go over the peninsula back into the gulf. that's where the trouble starts, right? >> that's right. it could be a tropical storm by saturday morning entering the gulf of mexico. admiral thad allen, the point man for the administration on this gulf disaster has said that regardless of what happens, the cap will remain on the well. even if it is unattended. now, the admiral will make a decision tonight at 8:00 after another briefing from the hurricane center on which
vessels will have to leave the deep water drilling site. they've already suspended the relief well operations just as it was getting ready to begin the kill operation. so it is a setback and how long this setback will be is yet to be determined. it's all up to mother nature at this point. >> charles, the whole reason for this new cap contraption was just for this issue which is dealing with this constant fear of tropical storms. >> that's right. it also stopped the philosophy oil. don't forget we will perhaps as much as 60,000 barrels of oil day. for the seventh day, it stopped about a week ago today that flow. so that's very good news. the question was, would it stay on. does it have to be monitored 24/7 just like it has been. they feel confident enough that the cap is holding that they can leave it unattended if a major storm pass the area. >> all right, charld had lock in